Yesterday, Will Wilkinson lobbed the “mysterian” stone at E.D. over his resistance to seeing happiness as something that can be scientifically quantified,
There are no doubt limits to human understanding, but where that limit is is another damned empirical question. I think the probability that we’ve approached that limit when it comes to the mind or human subjectivity or morality or the conditions of human flourishing is approximately zero. I think science is hard, but it’s just laziness or complacency to think the science of X is impossible or pointless. I think I’m trying to argue that your kind of typically conservative (intellectually, not politically) “mysterianism” is motivated by the assumption that if we actually learned something about a putatively ineffable subject matter, it might matter to how people live.
I often feel like people (albeit a relatively small sub-section of people) misuse the term mysterian when they encounter others who mount some degree of resistance to uniquity of science. Mysterianism has its roots in the philosophy of mind and is a term that has posthumously been applied to those thinkers who argued that the hard problem of consciusness (reconciling the subjective components of conscious experience with the objective information we have about the brain) may not be solvable. The New Mysterians, such as they are, have in some cases extended this sense of unsolvability to more problems than just that of consciousness. It is in this regard that Wilkinson seems to be using the term.
But the whole exercise of labeling those people who question science’s ability to solve all problems as mysterians speaks to the underlying bias with which many of those science resisters are often engaged: reductionism. Modern science has exclusively to do with an understanding of the world that is based upon the study of physical matter and in that regard it provides a system with extraordinary explanatory power. But the best of scientists with whom I’ve ever spoken acknowledge that to take that study one step further and forward the often unspoken premise that therefore all understanding can be reduced the study of physical matter is to misunderstand the exploratory nature of science itself.
The assumption of reductionism is that the only way to know something is to know it scientifically. This isn’t science as science, this is science as dogma. And the resulting concern is that by forfeiting all other modalities of knowing, we lose something important about our understanding of the world. Indeed, it becomes difficult to see how we go about resolving issues of, say, value and ethics, in a world bereft of subjects, where all that has ontological status are rocks, trees, atoms, and the like.
Pushing back against the primacy of scientific knowledge is not to suggest that something cannot be known and understood. It is rather to open up space for other modalities of knowing that might provide equally useful to scientific knowledge, perhaps even complimentary. So I tend to agree with Will that we haven’t come close to reaching the limits of human knowing about any variety of topics, but those limits close in much more quickly when we assume that human knowing means only and ever scientific knowing.
Borat: “I do a picture, only small, of the Tishnik Masacre. Where many Uzbeks…crushed!”
Kindly Gray Hippie: “How did you feel when you drew this?”
Borat: “Very proud!”.
KGH: “I’m just listening with sadness…a little sadness for your people…?”
Borat: “Yes…no, it is not sad. It is us who do the kill!”
When in doubt,
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It's funny, too. The only mysterian I'm familiar with is John Derbyshire who is also probably one of the most science-obsessed conservative writers out there. Go figure.
i think you are mixing up a couple terms. reductionism means to take something apart down it’s smallest parts in order to understand them. Not all science is reductionist. The search for an all encompassing theory of physics is not reductionist at all, in fact the aim to build one big theory to explain the physical laws of the universe. Also a lot of biology now is aimed at understanding how systems work together. You have to break something down to it’s individual parts and understand them before you can figure out the system.
I’m not sure why happiness can’t be quantified. It can be as simple as a survey or self-report of happiness or doing a longitudinal study of a cohort over many years assessing their reports of happiness.
I don’t think all knowledge has to be scientific, but science has a power that other knowledge can’t have. If other types of knowing are to be complementary then they should be careful to stay off of science’s lawn, so to speak. Which is a patch of grass that just keeps getting bigger.
“It can be as simple as a survey or self-report of happiness or doing a longitudinal study of a cohort over many years assessing their reports of happiness.”
I know such studies want to claim the name “scientific” but I’m dubious. There is much in such studies that don’t come close to meeting the definition of the scientific method.
What would such studies tell us, in a scientific sense, about the behavior or attitudes of the studied group as opposed to folks in another locality with entirely different, or even similar, values?
Such studies may be called sociology, years from now they may be called history, they will never be called scientific. IMHO.
attitude surveys are science. not everything that is science uses experiments, although you could make testable predictions/hypotheses about various attitudes. sorry, that actually is science. it’s not physics, but it is all sciency and suitable for blinding somebody, a la thomas dolby.
“What would such studies tell us, in a scientific sense, about the behavior or attitudes of the studied group as opposed to folks in another locality with entirely different, or even similar, values?”
1 That would depend on proper sampling.
2 Happiness woiuld i would guess be defined differently in different cultures. lots of things are. it doesn’t make the idea less valid.
“Sciency” works, and invoking Dolby, freaking great.
Pushing back against the primacy of scientific knowledge is not to suggest that something cannot be known and understood. It is rather to open up space for other modalities of knowing that might provide equally useful to scientific knowledge, perhaps even complimentary.
I agree. The scientist makes use of the historical and culture categories of language in his study of the physical world. Indeed, these categories shape his perceptions of physical objects. To the extent that the scientist uses language, he brings in other ways of knowing into his scientific project.
Meh.
Once again conservatives assume the field mouse position.
I think i will write something on that.
Here is where I get the field mouse meme from.
Science has rampaged over the landscape of divine explanation, provoking denial or surrender from the church. Christian leaders, even the Catholic church, have reluctantly accommodated the discoveries of scientists, with the odd burning at the stake and excommunication along the way.
The process of Christian accommodation is a bit like the fate of fieldmice confronted by a combine harvester, continuously retreating into the shrinking patch of uncut wheat.
Meaning, “other knowledge” is just another patch of wheat.
Fear of a Secular Planet (apolos to the immortal and superawesome Public Enemy)
I’ve been wonderin’ why
People livin’ in fear
Of science and technology
And wonder and discovery
Evolutions proven
Our morals are just human
And the biologic basis
doesn’t have to stay in stasis
But they got me one the run
Treat me like I have a gun
All I got is knowledge
All I got is data
And the promise of the future
So dont chu be a hatah
Embrace the future
Diss the past
Or the techno-singularity
will knock u on your ass
Consider me Scient to the bone
All I want is peace and love
On this planet
(Ain’t that how God planned it?)
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