State of the Discussion

The posts in play...

California Legislature Proposes Racial Discrimination in University Admissions Policy
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Affirmative Action and Philosophy vs. Reality
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Those Poor Bastards…
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Mothers are all the same in A Song of Ice and Fire
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The comments...

Scott
+ Todd: That is funny b/c I was thinking that folks will not stop assuming that some folks only got in based on race until AA ends [. . .]
Scott
+ Mike: Assuming that you can read please read what I wrote before you twist it. I said the "AA admission", which could be a black [. . .]
Murali

Just because there was AA in favour of groups 50 years ago, who have now gained more parity, it doesnt follow that AA worked.

+ 1. There something in the framing of this that should be addressed. Yes, the UC is mostly equal opportunity in that it doesn't discriminate against [. . .]
Will H.
+ The answers are yes and yes. In the first case, there has to be more than one affected party, and government should go after those responsible [. . .]
Will H.
+ I've done it myself in my early years, and alcohol and drugs took more people out than the work itself. But the greater dynamic is: If you [. . .]
Patrick Cahalan

> Which part of all of this triggered
> the decision for “p**sies?"

I'll guess reflexivity.

Murali
+ Actually I dont have any particular gorup in mind. Rather, I was rifing off Jeff's use of the term. Jeff was claiming that getting people [. . .]
Koz
+ At least three ways I can think of: 1. Historically. This is all stuff that's happened sometime roughly between 1950-2011, we're not going to look [. . .]
+ Well, let's say its not stupidity. Let's say you take a job at a manufacturing plant that uses a certain new kind of spray [. . .]
Koz
+ If I understand you correctly, we take increased AA participation in various professions and higher education as goal. And the question is do I [. . .]
Will H.
+ The drywaller is a good example of two things. Say one drywaller takes this as his career. He cultivates no other skills. In time, [. . .]
+ The more I think about this, the more curious I get. Which part of all of this triggered the decision for "p**sies?" That [. . .]
Will H.
+ Again, this assumes that people are incapable of learning new skills and strategies. Working within the system has always proven to be more productive to me. It [. . .]
Daniel
+ Help me out here: What do we actually know about Lady Joanna? I'm serious. All I can remember is that she died and that changed [. . .]
+ Well then, let me simply rephrase my question. Do you think that either AA (from the sixties on) or the actions of govt in [. . .]
+ Well, there is more to success in college and post-college than academic performance in high school. And even performance in high school is a different [. . .]
Will H.
+ There are a few things that I've noticed that have helped me that seem to have hindered others in a way. One is that I was [. . .]
+ I am certainly not aware of any. And since part of the argument is that with a more heterogeneous group you get a more [. . .]
Brandon Berg
+ Well, no, because many, many things have changed since then. It's entirely possible that some of those things have had good effects and some bad. But [. . .]
DensityDuck
+ "if it says “IGMFU” like a libertarian, its prolly a libertarian." troll fail. You can't just say random shit, dude, you gotta have a consistent [. . .]
Patrick Cahalan

> When food stamps were easy to
> sell, they were sold widely for
> anywhere to .25 to .50 on the
> dollar.

This jibes with my understanding.

Koz
+ Well, that's a category error I think, pretty clear from the definition of affirmative action. Among other things, it puts you on the other side of [. . .]
Will H.

You intrigue me.
Please explain.

Patrick Cahalan
+ > What i said is that reality is anti-libertarianism You have some heavy lifting to do, there. If that's what you really wanted to say, [. . .]
Will H.

I've seen that too.
The fact of the matter is that having too much money can destroy a person.

+ Actually, I'm not suggesting you're conflating things. When I am talking about AA, I am talking about the process of the government stepping in [. . .]
Patrick Cahalan
+ > So, two possibilities exist. I count at least three. One: there's nothing really so special about you, personally, and anyone can do it. Two: there is something [. . .]
Koz
+ Not necessarily. But whatever impact it's had is conflated with a bunch of other things, and the proponents of AA have made little if [. . .]
+ Actually I take that 50% to 60% number back. The current number is actually 43%. But based on the areas of campus I was usually [. . .]
Will H.
+ Why do you believe that social interaction is the responsibility only of the gazillionaires? What is it that makes you doubt that common people can do [. . .]
Will H.
+ Here's the flaw: You're still on the greater-to-lesser kick. These great people should help those lesser people. My view is that the greater and lesser are equals, and [. . .]
+ That is factually untrue. I attended UC Berkeley before AA was cancelled and about 50% of the school was Asian. Now it's probably up to [. . .]
Koz
+ In a backwards way I'm with Tod on this. Let them figure out what they think they can accomplish with AA. Then, if [. . .]
joey jo jo shabadoo jr.
+ let's back up. i never called him one. you could argue that i said he's acting like one. what i said is [. . .]
+ Are you then arguing that AA has had no impact - of the kind it sought to create, I mean - in the past 50+ [. . .]
+ Chris, can you explain why racial discrimination is necessary here? Why not discrimination based on wealth, geography, school district, etc? A good point. As [. . .]
Will H.
+ I agree with this statement very much. The weekend before last, I picked up a fellow from the side of the road in Effingham and gave [. . .]
Koz
+ "Tim, the problem with this argument is that you are using debate strategies to paint your opposition as people who wish to have racial discrimination [. . .]
Will H.
+ I don't think that poverty is one single thing. Poverty is more of a symptom, like a cough. Similarly, there is no one cure for poverty, the [. . .]
Koz
+ http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/2011/09/time-abolish-dhs (And hat tip to the American Spectator for this.) The public only has so much attention for engagement with political-cultural affairs. If we give up [. . .]
+ Chris, could you give me some more breadcrumbs? The data I've found so far is not nearly as clear as you suggest. For [. . .]

That's a really, really interesting take, Jib. Thank you for that.