State of the Discussion

The posts in play...

Endless Divisions
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the genuine shame of Ross Douthat’s New York Times column
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But What Are You For? The Death of Modern Movement Conservatism
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Bloodsport
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The comments...

Jaybird
+ Yes. Every time a CIA operative wants to use "Enhanced Interrogation", he ought to hire a lawyer. If he says "man, this guy probably doesn't have [. . .]
+ So every time a CIA operative wants to use 'inhanced interrogation' he has to hire a lawyer? That will just mean they don't do it [. . .]
Jaybird

"Some lattitude" includes, for me, the willingness to grant a pardon after a jury finds them guilty.

I think that's where you have to give them some lattitude as commander-in-chief.

Jaybird
+ "religiously-dogmatic defense of ideologies"? Dude, you are quoting a paper that explains that the people you happen to disagree with politically are that way because they [. . .]
Bob
+ "And as much as I dislike the President’s views on any number of issues, he has my complete trust that he will ignore the law [. . .]
Jaybird

Look at the laws. Would playing "Wannabe" fall under civil or criminal law?

How about punching?

+ The difference here is that you have a self-dealing situation that creates problems that go well beyond just whether torture was appropriate in a specific [. . .]
zic

Given the redistribution of wealth upward over the last ten years, yes. I guess you're right, in a backwards-world sort of way.

+ Isn't 'change the laws if you don't like them' the ultimate answer to 90% of the conversations we have around here? Of course I'd like [. . .]
+ Couple of questions: Are you talking about a full civil trial or some sort of intel panel that would review each instance of interrogation? Do you [. . .]
+ The answer to this is very simple: if you don't like the laws - which in this case are US statutory law that at least [. . .]
+ I see those laws governing the intelligence committee as pretty silly given that I don't think any of us believe the President or the Sec. [. . .]
+ The thing is that those three things are structurally impossible in the short-term. The writing may well be on the wall with gay marriage, [. . .]
Jaybird

"They deserve our trust." (citation needed)

Jaybird
+ Great. Do you think that a jury would vote not guilty for a guy who played "Wannabe" 500 times in a row to keep KSM awake [. . .]
Dan Miller
+ Well, there's a certain amount of give and take, and definitely liberals are at least slightly disappointed. But on the whole, there has been [. . .]
+ Jaybird, I do not support indefinite detainment. And I also don't support the military interrogating detainees. They are too close to things (buddy got killed last [. . .]
+ I understand that - but my point stands: why do we trust a full committee of Congresslizards plus their staffs, with all the incentives they [. . .]
Dan Miller

I have to say, this is one of the better descriptions of the Democratic party by a non-Democrat I've read.

zic

What you call "victimhood" they call "fairness."

Conservatives see it as a glass half-empty. Liberals as a glass half-full, the path of finding common ground.

Sam M
+ "Dems can answer that question–the world’s poor opinion of the US, the lack of diplomacy during the Bush years, the need to begin planning for [. . .]
+ Well I would say the writing is on the wall for gay marriage. It's going to keep moving forward in more and more states and [. . .]
zic
+ . . . without any unifying theme, any coherent and consistent agreement of what “good” governance now entails, how can you govern well? You [. . .]
+ The big problem is leaks which kill future operations. When senators go into these intel breifings they bring dozens of staffers with security clearance. Leaks [. . .]
+ It depends on how long you're willing to extend your window of reference, and how committed you are to a particular iteration of conservatism. [. . .]
+ The best opening the GOP has right now on any issue is education. Support for vouchers and charter schools is at an all-time high and [. . .]
+ "Concussions simply aren’t understood as potentially life-threatening injuries, which is why coaching staffs in high school, college and the NFL simply ignore them." Small quibble with [. . .]
Jaybird
+ Bullshit. We're not talking about the torture of KSM at this point. We're talking about the enhanced interrogation of teenagers who may or may not [. . .]

I agree about the cyclical nature of things. That's why I find all the gloom and doom about the GOP to be a bit short-sighted.

+ Do we really trust a Committee of Congresslizards more than a jury of 12 citizens capable of obtaining security clearance? And why should we [. . .]
Dan Miller
+ You really think that if the GOP took power they would make health care a priority? I think we'll have to agree to disagree. [. . .]
+ At this moment, not really. Democrats in general have a fairly clear vision of government as a tool for "social justice." This vision allows [. . .]
+ You can't put these people into the normal court system. There are intelligence risks involved. So put them in front of the Intel Committe in [. . .]
Jaybird
+ Pro wrestling has similar stories. Chris Benoit provides the best cautionary example. (I recall reading that doctors couldn't believe that he was still functional, let [. . .]
Jaybird
+ Sure, why not. Then put them on trial. Let them say "I thought that he might have information that would lead to us saving the lives [. . .]
adolphus
+ For reading on this very subject I would recommend anything by Edward Tenner, but especially Why Things Bite Back: Technology and the Revenge of Unintended [. . .]
Jaybird
+ I take the attitude that pretty much every human institution is unsustainable. It'll work for a while, maybe even work well, but eventually the culture/climate [. . .]
adolphus
+ I think they are both "it." The first applies to the knowledge of veterans, coaches, medical personnel, commentators, and other who have been in the industry [. . .]
+ I don't think that torture should be official policy. But what I DO think is that the unofficial policy should be that sometimes, in some [. . .]
+ From Mark: "Douthat’s emphasis on a heterodox conservatism that leaves room for regional differences sounds wonderful until you recognize that it turns conservatism and/or the GOP [. . .]
Jaybird
+ Let's assume that's true. We should totally allow for the option of jury nullification. If it turns out that a guy tortured a child rapist and, as [. . .]
 
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