State of the Discussion

The posts in play...

compromising yourself into the discussion
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Roe and the Culture War Morass
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D. Linker on Culture War-Abortion
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Emerging From the Hedged Roe
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Capitulation and Retreat
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The comments...

+ Bob, I was under the impression that Yglesias's failure to mention deficit spending was precisely the problem. Douthat's right to point out that seeing [. . .]
Dave Hunter
+ Mark Thompson; Sorry for not being more clear. Yes, it seems to me like you're writing in favor of results-oriented judicial decisions, due to sentences [. . .]
Dave Hunter
+ Chris Dierkes "I’m not really sure where you got the ‘i’m after punishing sex’ line." I never said you did; you're misquoting me. It's true that [. . .]
James Williams
+ Part of what we're seeing here is the flip side of the all-or-nothing strategy that the GOP started running since at least Gingrich, and codified [. . .]
James Williams
+ "In most places, the pro-choice and pro-life absolutists will no longer find themselves with quite as much power, as the majority in the mushy middle [. . .]
+ Hey - it's a difficult issue, and the Ely article is usually not remembered for its discussion of the hyperbolic use of "Lochner-ing." I [. . .]
matoko_chan
+ Mostly I am just awestruck by Obama. He is one move ahead of the repubs right down line. I keep going back to my Game [. . .]
matoko_chan
+ Seriously....eight years? Did conservatives work to overturn Roe? Nah. If they had cultcha life would cease to be politically useful as a voting issue and a [. . .]
matoko_chan
+ More importantly the view you hold has no legs culturally. Evolutionary Theory of Culture 101-- culture doesnt shape society as much as society shapes culture according [. . .]
matoko_chan
+ I think pancascadian is right....the seven states with red majorities would implement abortion restriction, and that would just lead to another "intervention" by the Supremes. Giant [. . .]
+ Mark, I know of the Ely law article but haven't had the chance to read it. It seems like I need to go back and [. . .]
matoko_chan
+ the effect of uniting both the pro-life and pro-choice sides of the issue. But this simply isn't true. Submitted empirical data--the epic fail of Colorado Prop 48. There [. . .]
+ Dave: As much as I respect David Bernstein, if he made that argument, that argument would appear to be wrong, as the Ely law review [. . .]
+ Matoko, as a matter of principle, do you support the decision in Lochner? Mark, as a quick point, I think there was an article written by [. . .]
Bob
+ The post "What 'Belongs' In the Stimulus" by Yglesias does NOT even mention deficits. He is only questioning the reasoning of those who oppose [. . .]
Cascadian
+ I'm having a hard time seeing past my pet positions. Larison might be right. Instead of defanging the culture war, it might present [. . .]
MikeF
+ the many large concessions that Democrats have made I think the biggest master stroke of the Obama administration so far has been convincing people that the [. . .]
+ That's a fair point. I just don't see Ross recognizing what to me is a bare fact: by refusing to compromise at all on the [. . .]
+ isn't Ross's point more about the ideology of the bill itself? I took him to be saying that, whether or not Republicans are willing [. . .]
Chris Dierkes
+ Dave, I'm not really sure where you got the 'i'm after punishing sex' line. For me it's more about trying to craft legislation that recognizes [. . .]
+ [...] problem I have with this argument is that it ignores the way in which Roe (and now Casey)’s arbitrary line drawing has the effect [. . .]
+ Dave Hunter: Are you referring to me with that? Because I'm not sure where I implied that I'm in favor of results-oriented decisions. (If [. . .]
+ Matoko - have you ever actually read Roe? Roe does not provide nearly the absolute rights you seem to credit it with, and Casey, [. . .]
Dave Hunter

So, you're in support of results-oriented judicial decisions.

matoko_chan
+ /yawn I'll swallow this mess of pottage if you can tell me how teh "terribly flawed" Roe v Wade is substantially different in mechanism or form [. . .]

[...] the comments to Chris’ excellent post on Roe v. Wade and the culture wars, I wrote: …The issue, fundamentally, is whether Roe was [...]

Dave Hunter
+ Chris Dierkes; "But can you see that the entire disagreement roughly comes back to this point: is abortion in that category? in fact both sides [. . .]

Chris - you are absolutely correct. More on this shortly....

Chris Dierkes
+ iow, I think it just muddles along as is and has a corrosive effect on civil society. Whatever else one thinks about the morality [. . .]
Chris Dierkes
+ Freddie, An issue (I wouldn't say the) might be that if Mark's analysis has some validity then it is not just the who has the more [. . .]
+ The issue, fundamentally, is whether Roe was legally and Constitutionally correct No. That was the issue while the decision was being decided. Now the issue is [. . .]

How dare you consider nuance in this debate, Mark. For shame!

+ There's one important thing that seems to be missing from this argument: whether a majority of Americans want to see Roe overturned is (or at [. . .]

Ah well, the horse can take it.... ;)

Bob
+ I applaud Larison for his nod to historical context and allowing for the multivalent, but those qualifiers broaden any discussion, something the dogmatic are loath [. . .]
+ Cascadian.... < blockquote > you savvy? followed by < /blockquote > minus the spaces... You can use em or i for italics...not sure about [. . .]
matoko_chan
+ infant/fetus rights (same thing in reverse). Incompletely differentiated cell clumps do not have citizen rights. The very first thing the right must abandon is personhood/life at conception. [. . .]
matoko_chan
+ I am not advocating anything. I am speaking truth. Sure, there should be two parties. But it certainly isn't my say. I am saying the current form of the [. . .]
Chris Dierkes
+ well at least we are getting to the central issue then. matoko your view assumes abortion is in the same category as segregation, racial [. . .]
matoko_chan

I am not talking individuals......I said the republican brand.
Those culture war issues are welded onto the GOP.
I'm just speakin truth.

Cascadian
+ matoko: I'm a card carrying Republican. I used to be a precinct captain. I guarantee you that I have not thrown [. . .]
matoko_chan
+ So what Chris? 70% of high school seniors would not have an abortion. 60% of high school seniors are against overturning Roe. Like with racial discrimination, anti-miscegenation and [. . .]
 
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